
Insight in Indian Country
REDW Advisors and CPAs is proud to bring you the Insight in Indian Country Podcast, covering important advisory, accounting, and finance topics that impact Tribal Nations and business affairs. Gain expertise on building bright futures futures with our trusted advisors. Press play on your commute or coffee break!
Insight in Indian Country
Election Year Economics: 2024 Financial Planning for Tribes
What exactly is a "soft landing" in the economy? This episode, REDW National Tribal Practice Leader Wes Benally and Wealth Management Principal Paul Madrid are discussing economic outlook for Tribal Nations in 2024, covering potential economic slowdowns, inflation outlooks, fixed income investments, and more. 🎧 Tune in for expert insights on financial planning. 💸🫰
Takeaways
- A soft landing in the economy is a slowdown without a recession, and it is the current expectation for 2024.
- When considering financing for projects, it may be beneficial to wait for interest rates to potentially decrease or explore floating rate loans.
- Having excess cash on hand can be an opportunity to generate income through investments such as US government bonds.
- Diversifying equity investments within the US and non-US markets can help manage risk and capture potential upsides.
- Regularly reevaluating risk and asset allocation is important to ensure alignment with financial goals and minimize surprises.
- Election years can bring volatility to the market, so it is important to be prepared and consider diversification.
- Inflation is an important metric to consider when budgeting and making financial decisions.
- Regularly reviewing and adjusting financial strategies with the help of an advisor can help optimize financial outcomes for Tribal Nations.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction
01:48 Economic Slowdown and Soft Landing
06:18 Considerations for Financing Projects
08:31 Maximizing Cash on Hand
12:41 US Equities and Non-US Equities
16:59 Reevaluating Risk and Asset Allocation
20:36 Risks in an Election Year
25:29 Considerations for Inflation
26:51 Final Thoughts
© 2024 REDW Wealth LLC. This publication is intended for general informational purposes only and should not be construed as investment, financial, tax, or legal advice. Information and instruction shared in the article above do not guarantee outcomes, performance, or quality of services provided to REDW Wealth Management clients by REDW Wealth Management or its employees. Adherence to our fiduciary duty is not a guarantee of client satisfaction or any particular outcome. Advisory, Assurance, and Tax is offered through REDW LLC. Wealth Management is offered through REDW Wealth LLC.
REDW Advisors and CPAs is proud to bring you the Insight in Indian Country Podcast, covering important advisory, accounting, and finance topics that impact Tribal Nations and business affairs. Thanks for listening!
Welcome to the Insight and Indian Country Podcast, your premier source of accounting and business discussions affecting Indian country. Presented by REDW.
Speaker 2:Welcome back to another episode of Insight in Indian Country. I'm your host, Wes Ali . I'm excited for today's conversation about what's on the economic horizon in 2024 for tribal nations. Joining me is my colleague, Paul Madrid, the wealth investment practice leader here at RDW, who works closely with tribes on their investment planning. And more recently, Paul wrote in a formative article discussing financial planning for tribes in 2024, covering topics like potential economic slowdowns, inflation outlooks, fixed income investments, and more. Paul, hey, welcome back to the podcast. Yeah, thanks for having me. How you doing ? All ? All right . I'm just , uh, looking forward to sharing some information, what's going on with the markets, the interest rates, all that kind of stuff, but yeah , doing well about how , how's everything going with you? Oh, man, it's, it's been good. It's been good, you know , um, it is January 20, 24, you know, just really in the swing of things to get planning for, you know, these next couple months. Um, unfortunately , uh, my football team's on the playoffs. I don't got a college team, <laugh> team playoffs. Uh, so I'm, I'm from the Phoenix Valley, so right now all I got to hang my hat on is the Phoenix Sun, so we'll see what happens and ask me a little shaky lately. So <laugh>. Yeah. Hopefully get some wind there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, well, hey, Paul, you know, I think this is an important topic for a lot of people that are listening in and especially , um, you know, decision makers that work in the finance , uh, you know , um, part of, you know, tribal governments. And I think it's also important for , um, a lot of , uh, tribal decision makers on kind of having a good idea and , you know, what things might look like here moving forward. Now , um, you know, I'm sure you know, each tribe has their own, you know, investment advisor, and there's different, you know , um, frame of references and, and, but there's always a ton of information. But I always like how you break down your articles into just five simple things to think about, really just, you know, to, to kind of consider as you're moving forward, making decisions for , um, your, your organization. So , um, just having a quick glance at your article , um, you mentioned, you know, a economic slowdown in 2024, but potentially a soft landing rather than a recession. Yeah. Can you explain a little bit what you mean by a soft landing and, and why that's the current expectation? Yeah, yeah, of course. So there's a lot of talk , uh, at this time with the soft landing and , and really what a soft landing is just to slow down in an
Speaker 3:Economy where you don't have a recession , uh, in many cases you will have a , a slow down in an economy and an ends in a recession. Um , but in this case, the market is, is thinking that we won't have a recession or there's a likelihood that we won't have a recession. So they've been calling this , uh, a potential for a soft landing, and , and the reason why they, they, they go further, it's because of, of rates. So the Federal Reserve increased rates significantly , uh, really in 22. Um, kind of paused it in 23 , uh, and , and now they're, they're expecting to lower it potentially later in 24. Um, but as interest rates rise, the , um, the borrowing cost gets higher. Uh, as , as you, as many of us know, if you were looking to buy a house over the last 12 months , uh, the mortgage rates were were much higher. And if you had a two or 3% mortgage rate and you wanted to sell and buy a new house, it really wouldn't make a lot of sense. So, naturally, that will slow down the housing market as it has. Uh, and so now with interest rates across the board, like the Federal Reserve has , uh, their rates around five and a half percent, and that's the very short term rates. Um, that's putting some stress on the economy , uh, but they're at a point where they're not expecting to raise rates more , uh, so they're looking to lower it later if, if the economy starts to slow further. Uh, but overall, the slowdown is just , uh, or excuse me, the , the soft LA is, is is basically a slowdown , uh, that doesn't end in a recession. And that's good for the economy, good for investors, good overall. Um, it's more of a goldilocks scenario, meaning that , uh, it would be nice if that happens, but it doesn't, doesn't always happen. In fact , uh, I was looking at some data recently, and since 1960 , uh, there's been about 10 , um, interest rate hike cycles , um, and 30% of those ended in a soft landing. Uh , 70% of them ended in recession. So the chances are pretty slim that we'll have a soft landing, but, but the numbers more and more are starting to look like, Hey, it's slowing, but it's not a significant slowdown. So there there could be a soft landing coming .
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I mean, with that being said, like, you know, if I'm, if I'm a , a tribal leader or something like that, and I'm thinking, okay, you know, I have a bucket of , of, of , of investments, you know, that they're probably making a pretty good, decent return from, from an interest rate perspective. But then if I have a project I want to finance , um, I may want to consider, you know, maybe holding off or maybe just , um, thinking about, you know, what's, what's, what's an opportunity for that, just given that if, if a slow , um, excuse me, if a soft landing occurs that might, you know, help me a little bit, it would , I have that scenario right. If I, if I was Yes . Yeah . You know , thinking about
Speaker 3:You do , um, let's say a travel CFO and you have a , a big project to, I know , build a hotel or something, or just add on to a , a , a unit that you already have. Um , you usually look for financing and rates are higher now, so it's a , it's more costly. So you should consider, what , should we hold off a little bit to see if rates start to come down a little bit or , um, depending on what offerings are out there, you can , uh, maybe look for a floating rate loan , uh, with the expectations that that interest rates will eventually fall. Uh, so let's say you lock in a six or 7% floating rate load now, and then later on this year as rates start to fall , uh, which is the likely scenario, you may be at a five or 6% interest rate with that same load . And if it gets slower, obviously your rates get lower too. Uh, but there's always the opportunity to refinance in the future. Uh, but, but a lot of us are cautious because the rates are high now, it is slowing. We don't know that it's gonna be a significant slowdown, but just be a little cautious around that. Like, Hey, what, how much should I go for a project? And if so, what types of financing opportunities are out there?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's definitely , um, a good point. 'cause I know that, you know, generally we're out in the, with, with our clients, you know, they'll , they'll ask those type of questions and, you know, I think , um, a lot of 'em are thinking about different projects that might be popping up, but really just how does, how does the rate affect , you know, some of the decision making around those, around those , um, around those projects. But , uh, kind of turning to the other hand though, like, you know, I know that , um, we talk about, you know, just interest rates with respect to, let's just say you have a lot of cash on hand, you know, and , um, you're sitting there as a, as a decision maker and , okay, what's the best use of , um, my cash that I can have cash on hand? You know, a lot of , uh, tribes are sitting out there with still some ARPA money sitting possibly in a checking account or , um, and so forth. So you could explain just a little bit on, you know, what kind of options might be available in , you know, what , um, how to take advantage of current market conditions to maybe kind of maximize some of that, some of that cash on hand.
Speaker 3:Yeah, there , there's still a really good opportunity to , uh, to get some income offers or cash. Last year we worked with a number of clients , uh, just, just kind of planted around that. So , uh, as an example, we had a client that had , uh, about three, two to 3 million in, in their, their checking account on average. Uh, we did an analysis and found that they never got below 1 million in the past 10, 15 years. Uh, so we said, Hey, let's pull out a million there , uh, since we don't anticipate using it, and let's buy some US government bonds. Uh, in that case, we were able to generate about 40,000 in income for them with that million dollars , um, and keeping it liquid. So if they needed to pull that out, knowing we can sell it within a day and get it to their , uh, their checking account the following day , uh, is very, very good to, to know and , and comforting. So , uh, having an opportunity to do something with that excess cash that you don't necessarily , uh, plan on using can generate a lot of income. And then , depending on how those funds are structured, if they're grant funds or whatever, whatever it may be , uh, in many cases you can still buy government securities , um, and that income that you generate off of that worst case scenario, you can use that income for the whatever it's dedicated for. Uh, but in many ca or some other cases, it could be , uh, that income can used for another purpose. So for instance, like the ARPA funds, the income you get generate off of that can be used for something else. Uh, but it , there's, there's opportunity there. If you have extra cash on that on your checking account, you're really not getting much interest. You also have the risk around , um, FDIC insurance. So custodial credit risk, when you have an auditor coming in, that's one thing that they'll flag you on , uh, unless you got those , uh, secured by the bank or, or, or backed by US treasuries. Uh, but why not just pull it out yourself and buy the US treasuries yourself back at yourself and claim the income for yourself , uh, and then you won't have the audit line . There's, there's a lot of positives in doing so. It's not very , um, risky. Uh, it's just about planning. What are the expectations when you're gonna need the funds , uh, and , uh, how to , and how to just keep it , uh, in the risk intact by, by focusing on short-term , uh, maturities there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a real good point you had there. Uh, Paul, I know that when , um, the whole, you know , Silicon Bank thing was, was it was going on and, you know, you know, that , um, some of the , you know, those deposits and collateralization getting calls from clients about, okay, you know, how do we avoid that situation? I think your point was, you know, perfect. 'cause you were trying to, you know , kind of think about, all right , well, you know, is, is , um, securing some of that money with pledge securities or how , how, how would be a good treasury option for them to, to think about with any, you know , um, especially federal funding, you know? And so, you know , some, some tribes have agreements set up with their financial institutions to, you know, have that kind of , uh, system in place. But it was, it was kind of , uh, interesting to me that a lot don't, you know, <laugh>. So, and, you know, having those type of options that I think your people can bring would, would be, would be really good. And, and especially kind of understanding , um, some of the nuances with , with federal funding and, you know, and , and kind of protecting that in the event something like that happens. And so that's definitely some, some good pointers. Yeah . Um , now, you know, usually you'll see in, you know, most tribes investment mix, like, you know, mutual funds , uh, bonds. And then we have the other component of it is equities. And know in your, yeah, in your , um, your , uh, article, you talk , uh, about US equities and non-US equities. So if you can maybe just elaborate a little more on that, that that'd be awesome. I just kind of help , uh, understand, you know, what, what things might look like here moving forward for, for some of these , um, uh, US equities and non US equities.
Speaker 3:Yeah, of course. Um, so yeah , to your point, a lot of tribes will , will have bonds, but , uh, some of 'em with their long-term monies will have some equities , uh, as part of their asset allocation. Um, equities had a great year last year, so a lot of , uh, investors are trying to figure out, are we overvalued? Are , is there still room to go up? Um, and in some cases we are a little overvalued in the, in large growth companies in the US side , uh, but when we look at value in smaller companies, we're not as expensive. Uh, and then even bonds are , are still , um, less expensive than, than they have historically. Uh, so there's an opportunity to just diversify your, your, your equities , um, uh, both , uh, within the , uh, United State Equity market and , and the small and the value companies, but also outside the United States. In fact , uh, the non-US equities , uh, have been undervalued for a long time relative to US equities. Uh, I don't know if that's gonna continue for another few years or , or not, but at some point that title will turn and, and you'll be able to capture some of those upsides on , on the non-US equity side. So what we would do with tribes is we would do something that's called, like an asset allocation study, asset allocation analysis, which will run different risk scenarios to show them what happens if you change your equity mix, or what happens if you add , uh, more small cap or international stocks, or what happens if you, you , um, reduce your bond exposure or, and , and go to stocks. What does that look like? Um, this is an analysis that can give you multiple scenarios to show you the likelihood of success , uh, what kind of return you can expect, kind of income you can get , uh, and then what kind of range of returns you can see in different time periods. So usually a a one year return's gonna see the biggest range of, of outcomes. Uh, but if you can hold for 3, 5, 10 years , uh, you're gonna see , um, a lot smaller range of outcomes and in many cases, positive as you go out in terms of , uh, the , the longer term , uh, spectrum. Um, so working with tribes and others just to say, Hey, what , what do we have in our asset allocation? Is that still the right mix for us? Uh, should we reduce some of the US stocks , uh, particularly in the large growth side, or should we keep them , uh, depending on their risk level? Uh, we wanna make sure that that risk allocation is, is meeting their objectives. Uh, we wanna make sure that we're, we're not creating any surprises that could come down the road. Um, a as an example , uh, a lot of tribes in 2022 had a lot of bonds and they thought they were safe, and bonds are typically safe, you're gonna get your money back at , at the end , uh, as , as well with, with government securities generally. Um, but when we sell interest rates essentially go from 0% to 5% in a matter of six to nine months in 2022, that really shocked the bond market. Uh, in fact, bonds were down , uh, as much as 17% , uh, at one point in time for, for the general bond market. Some bonds were down much more than that. Uh, and there could have been some tribes, and there was some tribes out there that had some longer term bonds, and these were government bonds that saw huge unrealized losses , uh, on their 22 financial statements, so , or their fiscal years, what , whatever the , the period was. And, and so now a lot of 'em are reevaluating that say, should we continue , uh, holding these, which we do? How do we reinvest to get other income? Should we focus on shorter term securities? Um, so having that, that shock in 2022 has really , uh, opened the eyes to , uh, a lot of , um, tribes who just kind of set it and forget it. And , uh, now, now they're revisiting that and they're revisiting their risk. And so that's where that asset allocation study comes into play, where we can , uh, dig into that detail, figure out what's an appropriate level of risk, and try to minimize that as much as we can, because we want that money to be there for them. We , we wanna make sure their , their , uh, their goals are met , um, and, and minimize that risk overall.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I , you know, I, it's always , um, interesting to me when, you know, we, like you , you have that good point. You kind of set it and forget it, but I think an important thing is always to come through with some sort of check, you know, like, am I what I have? Does it , is it really making sense? You know? And you know, I , I think it's always good to have a , a good, you know , um, sometimes third party just come in and, you know, just do a quick evaluation on, you know , whether things make sense, you know? And so , um, I always kind of, you know, just kind of think about that. Like, you know, I , I like to run, you know, so <laugh>, but yeah , you know, maybe I am , uh, you know, running in the right direction or, you know, or I am , uh, running and have proper running form, but am I right running in the right direction? You know, so that , I mean, it's, it's kind of like, okay, it's almost getting a , if you will, like a second trainer, they kind of think about, you know , providing new ideas. And so , um, I'm guilty of it all the time, you know, just kind of being a little content with , um, you know, how I, how I do things and, and , and, you know, you know , and that could sometimes go with the investment, the investment habits, right? And so it's always good to have a , a third set of eyes in there, a second set of eyes that say, okay, have you ever, have you thought about this? You know, is this something else you , you've thought about just given current market dis conditions? And , um, you know, I'm really glad you brought that up 'cause you know, that that definitely is a good, good , um, good thought there, just kinda setting up , forgetting it , but yeah, also having an opportunity to take a look at it, you know? So agree .
Speaker 3:Yeah , I was just gonna add that as a general practice , um, it , it makes a lot of sense to just revisit that a manual basis, Hey, does this still make sense? And , um, h how do , how do we evaluate that? But you're right, it's like you can't, you can't just put it in there, set it, forget it, and then you're, you're going in the wrong direction. You don't , you don't even know it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then you just see, I know a lot of times we're presenting to , um, tribal governments and, you know, just some of the leaders, you know, obviously some of the leaders are, you know, are there because, you know, they have good, good community communication, you know, they have , uh, well, well respected, you know , um, influence on the community, but you know, more often than not, not really financially savvy. So when, when, from a perspective of like just kind of reading financial statements and stuff like that is what , is what I mean. And , uh, when you mentioned , you know, unrealized losses, there's always that discussion on what we know , what do we, what do we mean by unrealized losses? Did we , do, we lose cash and all that. But just kind of ex explaining that process of it too, as well as how that, how holding a specific financial asset, you know , um, changes relative to the market and how that, that shows from an accounting perspective. And so I , I'm, I'm glad you brought that up. Now , uh, you know, one of the last components you talk about are , um, you know, risks, you know, and, and, you know, now that we're in an election year, <laugh> things can get a little, you know, a little funky. And so , um, maybe , uh, dive in a little bit on that. You know, I know that, you know , um, I could probably expect, you know, a little cheaper at the pump here coming in November. But, you know, outside of that, you know, just really, you know, what , what kind of things can, can people think about, you know, moving into , uh, 2024? Yeah,
Speaker 3:Yeah. There's, there's likely gonna be risks . So we don't know exactly what they're gonna be. Um, uh, we , uh, to your point, with an election year, there's always gonna be volatility in an election year. It doesn't mean that stocks or bonds are gonna have negative returns or, or bad years, but it does create some volatility. Um, there, there's some data that shows , uh, the average return in an in, in an election year , uh, for stocks is positive. Um, it's not as positive as a non-election year, but it's more positive than a mid midterm election year. So I guess we're in the middle of the road there in terms of the likelihood of returns are be decent , uh, they're not gonna be the best , uh, and probably not gonna be the worst. Uh, but there's always uncertainty and uncertainty rattles markets. Uh, so I would imagine as summer starts to get underway , uh, especially as we get closer to the election , uh, time in November , uh, we'll we'll see some ups and downs in the market. So , uh, with that, it , it makes sense to just make sure that you're, you're diversified in, in the right way. And if you're, if you're very worried or, or you don't, if you think that you're gonna need the money in the next six months , uh, I would say don't, don't really allocate stocks. Uh, uh, try to focus on very short term government securities where you're gonna get your money back and the income from that. Uh, but there's definitely gonna be some, some risks , uh, uh, this year. And, and then we have the uncertainty around , uh, the soft landing or not. So if we, if we don't hit a soft landing and we do get into recession, then that, that's gonna be a bad scenario for, for stocks. Likely , uh, doesn't always mean that. In fact, I, I , um, have a report that I, I like to review that shows average returns for stock markets during a recession and even slightly before a recession. Uh , and they're actually flat or , or positive. So it's really not too bad. It's usually , uh, around six to 18 months before an actuary recession happens at stocks fall. So, long story short is we'll likely see some risk, we'll see more volatility. Uh, we haven't seen much vol volatility over the last couple months , um, but just expect it. So , uh, if you, if you're gonna need money in the short term , again, be more conservative with it. If you have some, some longer term monies , uh, you, you should, you should already know to expect some risk. Um, and , um, just, just kind of expect it coming, coming at some point this year. We , we don't know what that's gonna look like. There's always something that comes around. Um, but yeah, there, there's risk out there. One, one last thing I'll touch on is the inflation aspect. Um, that was the whole reason why we started to see interest rates go so , uh, go so high and in 22 through 22, 20 23 , um, but now inflation's starting to come down, and that's why the Fed had stopped , uh, raising rates. I really wanted to control that. And now inflation has been coming down at a pretty fast pace. Uh, so when we look at , uh, that pace and where we're at at on inflation, in fact , the number just came out today. It's the , the feds , uh, I guess the primary , uh, inflation indicator that they look at, and it's called , uh, the PCE Deflator. And that PCE Deflator showed a , uh, an actual decline in inflation that was , um, uh, I guess , uh, lower than expected. So for the first time, and , and quite some time inflation over the last 12 months came under 3%. Uh, and this is the core number that I'm talking about. So it doesn't include energy and , and food, but it's 2.9% over the last 12 months. And then even further, if we just look at the last month inflation rate , uh, and we annual analyze that number, we're at 2.4%. So we're getting close to that fed's target of that 2% , uh, inflation that they wanna get to. So we'll likely start to see some , uh, uh, rates fall , um, sometime this year. I , I don't know when that will , when , when that will be. Uh, some people think it'll be earlier, some say later. My guess is probably summertime we'll see rates start to come down a little bit, at least the fed rates. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> , um, because inflation is getting back down to where, where they want it.
Speaker 2:Right. Right. I'm glad you brought that up. And since it's definitely an important metric, right? I mean, when you're hiring people, you know, there's, you know, certain , uh, things you gotta take into account, you know, or even just even salary increases, cost of living increases, like what's a good metric to utilize to, you know, kind of justify some of those increases? And so, you know, as a decision maker for a trial , you know , the , you know, the standard's always been just for my , or just , yeah, let's just increase the 3%. And you ask kinda why <laugh>, I don't know. Mm-Hmm . We've always done that <laugh>, but, you know , and then , but if you're , uh, really kind of paying attention to, you know, you know, stuff like that with, you know, inflation and it might provide a better perspective on how or how to , how to budget, you know, moving forward. Obviously there's limitations given a specific amount of funding you might get or budget, but you know, at least, you know, if for, for this past year, if you , um, you know, were thinking something a little higher than what you historically did, you know, definitely inflation was, was something. And yeah, I , I'm definitely feeling it, you know, I mean , uh, just very last night I went to Chick-fil-A to buy some, get some food for my, my little guys and <laugh> , I was , whoa , I remember this being , I ever , you know, a chicken sandwich, you know, so I'm , I'm glad to hear that some of those , uh, those rates are going down and so, well, you know, Paul, you know , uh, any last words for our listeners today? You know, I think, you know, you've provided a good perspective on, you know, core things to think about, you know, moving into 2024, you know , with it being , um, you know, we might have not necessarily a recession, but more of a soft landing, you know, especially with different projects you might think of might be popping up, you know, where you need to borrow money, but down the other hand, you know, it's a good time if you just have cash to, to think about alternatives on how to , uh, create more interest income. And then also, you know, it's election year. So really kind of considering that for 2024, you know , um, you know , a any last thoughts? Uh , on , on this, Paul ?
Speaker 3:I think you covered it. Ultimately, it's just about staying on top of it , um, kind of digging into your cash flow , see, see what you're , you plan on using. Uh, be smart about picking the, the right , uh, financing if you're gonna do that. Uh, and then if you're not gonna finance and you , you need to do something with the cash, look for some income opportunities. Um , and then lastly , uh, again, just getting back to is your asset allocation, right? You should revisit that, that at least annually, do that in conjunction with your investment policy, making sure that everything's in alignment. It's not a , a difficult , uh, practice, but it's well worth it. So if you just get into it, review that, hey, that still makes sense, or work with your advisor. If you don't have an advisor , uh, reach out to me. I can kind of guide you in the right direction. But that's just a , an opportunity to see, kinda like you said, have that outsider. Check it. Hey, does this look good? Many cases, you , you , you , you're probably fine, but it's an opportunity to dig deep.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Paul? Yeah. For our listeners out there, be sure to, you know, visit ww.rew.com, look for the wealth team. They have , um, several members in that wealth team that have a myriad of different experiences, and, you know, especially working with tribes, understanding you know, how to do that. So reach out to Paul and then if any other items pop up, Paul and his team are consistently putting out articles on the market, you know, and then they definitely have some good insight on any investment opportunities or, you know, what , what's out there in the, in the market. Definitely reach out. And once again, thank you for joining us today, Paul, really appreciate your time. I know you're very busy, man, and , um, you know , thank you.
Speaker 3:Yes , of course. Thanks Wes.
Speaker 1:Thank you for listening. We hope this time has benefited you. For more information or to connect, please visit RED w.com .